I’m Not Ready To Attack Jonathan Yet, But He Misruled Us - Kenneth Gbagi

Exclusive interview with Olorogun Kenneth Gbagi, a
former deputy minister under ex president Jonathan.
Lawyer, criminologist and former Minister of State
for Education under President Goodluck Jonathan,
Olorogun Kenneth Gbagi, spoke with Sunday
Oguntola on the new administration and where
Jonathan missed the mark. Excerpts:
What's your take on the state of the nation?
I believe that a nation that went down to the level we
got to under the last administration will find it
difficult to get out of it hale and hearty. I believe Dr
Goodluck Jonathan is, in fact, a lucky man that
President Muhammadu Buhari won the election. We
had reached the end of the road under him.
That we had a change of government, itself, had
given us a breather. What the breather means is that
we have a better hope than before. A lot of Nigerians
now expect something as against when we had no
expectation. What we are looking for now is how
President Buhari will get us out of the messy
situation we are in.
They have started arresting some criminals. What we
had in the past were inconclusive arrests and
investigations. We must make people account for
what they did. Our security agencies must arrest
looters. Instead of just taking money from them, we
must take the current arrests to a logical conclusion.
You were part of the Jonathan's years. Are you
dissociating yourself from the failures of that
administration?
I became a minister in that government by a lot of
interferences. For instance, when I refused to be a
minister, no less a person than Theophilus Danjuma
was contacted to prevail on me. I accepted the
appointment and worked for Nigeria. The duty of
Jonathan was to appoint, mine was to work. I did my
work unblemished.
However, there were things in government that went
on while I was there and after I had left that I
dissociate myself from. I'm dissociating myself from
the infractions of the government.
I want Nigerians to know that there are people in this
country who have made money and had wealth
before going into government.
The former president himself said several times that
he didn't know I was that wealthy before I joined his
government.
The point is I'm not directing any attack at anybody
but what I'm saying is that the country was misruled
and if Jonathan was my father or brother, I will say
so. I won't keep quiet when things are bad. You will
recall I told Jonathan two months before the
elections that there was no way he could come back.
Do you think the steps Buhari have taken so far are
taking us back to the right tracks?
As somebody in the business world, I will say that
Buhari himself might not have done something but
the fact that you cannot carry $100,000 to the
president for any favour has put a different
orientation into our heads that it is no longer
business as usual. It is clear that at over 70, Buhari
will never get to a stage where he would have any
other interest at heart than the good of Nigeria.
But some have alleged that 95 percent of his
appointments are from a section of a country where
he comes from. What's your take on that?
There are appointments that the President has to
make under constitutional conditionality but there
are some that are strictly under his prerogative. We
can compare him with other former presidents of
Nigeria and see if he had done anything different.
You cannot appoint a Minister of Niger Delta from
Lagos. It is not possible because the constitution has
taken care of that. But if you talk about some
appointments, it is based on what the President
wants.
For the first time in the nation's history, the president
and the head of the electoral commission are from
the same region. Will this augur well?
I can confirm to you that Amina Zakari will never be
chairperson of INEC. A government's business cannot
be left in a vacuum. When the last chairman was
leaving, somebody necessarily must take over in an
acting capacity. What we have is a transition to a
different government.
In a country where the President is inundated with
many criminals, he has to take his time to appoint the
right person for an important agency as INEC.
But I can assure you that Buhari is too sensible to
make Amina the substantive INEC chairperson no
matter how competent she is. The history of Nigeria
has made it that the President and the INEC chair
always come from different regions. Amina is only
bidding time in INEC. She will go when Buhari finds a
competent person.
What about the appointment of the Department of
State Services (DSS) Director-General, a man from
the President's village, more or less a cousin?
Nigerians must learn to remove pettiness from our
reactions. Given the sensitive nature of this country,
in terms of coups and counter-coups, it has become
a practice to appoint someone you can trust as DSS
chief.
Let me start by saying that Daura is a wonderful and
honest man. He has not been found wanting or
accused of corruption. We have had several
instances of Presidents only entrusting security to
persons they are comfortable with.
The former DG SSS, Sunday Areh, was dismissed for
allegedly plotting a coup. He was a Lt. Col when he
was dismissed from the military. He was brought
back by former President Obasanjo. Areh was like his
son. He became DG DSS.
Lt. General Patrick Azazi was appointed as Director of
Military Intelligence, then National Security Adviser
(NSA) because former President Jonathan believed in
him. Azazi was from Jonathan's region. Every major
appointment in the security forces then were
coordinated by Azazi. That was what the former
President was comfortable with.
The point is that today people feel comfortable with
certain persons. Nigeria has become so distrustful
that you need persons you can trust for certain roles.
So, what is wrong with Daura who left the service
voluntarily because he couldn't cope with the level of
corruption?
So, the President has not done anything wrong by
picking a man who left the service voluntarily. We
have to be careful with many of the things said in the
social media because most of the activists are
sponsored and paid by certain vested interests.
Are you not bothered that Buhari is taking eternity to
form a cabinet?
Let me tell you that because of the level of rottenness
in the polity, you have to be extra careful with some
appointments. I know that Nigerians can be
impatient. We are becoming restless. What Buhari is
going through is as a result of the distrust we have
for our leaders.
Do you agree with Buhari's limiting his probe of past
administrations to Jonathan's government?
Buhari has no business going to probe Obasanjo
regime. It will just be an unnecessary and
irresponsible distraction, because whatever
Obasanjo did, Yar' Adua came, and I can tell you I
worked with Yar' Adua. I was then the Chairman of
the Legal Aid Council of Nigeria and in my meetings
with Yar' Adua he would have probed Obasanjo.
I can tell you that without making mistakes. And
Obasanjo knows himself that Yar' Adua would have
probed him. If Yar' Adua did not probe him,
Jonathan came and did not probe him then that
government is gone and gone.
Whatever Obasanjo did in his government obviously
will have effect on Yar' Adua/Jonathan's government
and if they felt that there was nothing wrong and
nothing to probe that was the business of that
government.
But whatever happened in Jonathan's government
has direct and immediate bearing and consequences
on this government. It is a back- to- back
government. Buhari has a duty to probe Jonathan.
And in any case what is wrong with that? I was a
minister before, what is wrong in probing me? Why is
anybody afraid of Buhari's probe? What is causing
anxiety over the issue of Daura now? Why are they
afraid? If your hands are clean, why are you afraid of
probe? I have properties all over Nigeria and abroad.
I have every cheque that I have received in my life as
a human being. So, why is anybody afraid of probe?
Are you still open to returning to politics?
It destroyed all my businesses. I can play an advisory
role. I can play roles that are not directly opposed to
my successes, my business successes in life. I don't
think I want to be involved. I am too old now. At 53, I
should bow out.
What then happens to the infatuation you have of
ruling Delta, which you are passionate about?
I am still passionate. We have a governor who is my
friend, who we all started the party together. Let us
see him succeed instead of heating up the polity of
Delta State. I am very certain that is what we need to
do right now.
But as God wishes, if He calls you, you cannot reject.
But I am saying that I won't go to anybody; that I have
never done before to submit my CV to beg for
appointment that I want to work for you.
You didn't lobby to be a minister?
Never! I did not. EK Clark was the one who insisted
that I must be a minister. He did everything possible
and I said I will not be. When it became so bad he
spoke to my friend Theophilus Danjuma to persuade
me.
Some persons are of the opinion that you are
attacking Jonathan because he removed you as a
minister?
It is very childish for anybody to make such
statement. Jonathan himself feels guilty that he will
have to leave politics for nothing. We held that
administration and made it work without any
interest. Jonathan has not given me one kobo in my
life; I was the one who spent my personal money and
I am not attacking him.
If you see all my discussions, I have not attacked him.
If I have to do so, I have enough reasons to do so
because I have enough facts to do so but I have not
gotten to that stage yet.
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